Crag climbing accident reddit. The home of Climbing on reddit.
- Crag climbing accident reddit. Does anyone have any info as to what happened, and if he is OK?… 1. We can consider these the vertical equivalent of workplace accidents, where a victim is hurt after repeating a dangerous task that’s become routine. I have been climbing for almost 2 years now and I am only now looking to get my rope and if I did that before I really wouldn't know what I would be climbing. Congrats man, when that dies down your crag will be all shiny new and without any annoying bushes or trees. I was very wrong. If you can be careful not to do this (get the whole group to agree to a few courtesies), you'll be fine. It was heavily vegetated till a forest fire burned all the trees and bushes away, now it's a Maine classic. Some routes can be a little sketchy like any crag, but the area has been a climbing destination since the 1930's. The rock here is known to be brittle and slippery, and the guy was not very experienced. This is how the Precipice, a great crag at Acadia National Park got its start as a climbing area. Canberra itself has a few crags and bouldering locations which are within the actual city itself which makes after work climbing sessions doable in the summer. Jun 5, 2025 路 Fatigued guides at the end of a season make errors at well-known crags; locals pitch off routes they have wired; seasoned climbers rappel off of rope ends or fail to finish knots at climbing gyms. How do you move forward after a serious climbing accident? I just got home from the worst climbing day of my life and I don't know how to get over the guilt and panic I'm feeling right now. Good practical crag bag, although it's suitcase like design makes it not great for heavy loads over >5miles. I can tell you that if you do the requires physical therapy it wont stop you climbing. 447 votes, 294 comments. According to the tag on the sling the draws are from 2006 and made by Camp. You can also do a ton of backpacking in Rocky and its stupidly beautiful. Of course there's generally no hope to clean after so you carry back dirty pots that are crusty by the time you get back to camp/home. Another very sad day in NH. Here is a picture of the Here you have an excellent source of crag/route information, as well as the possibility for ticking/logging your route ascends. PSA: if you get called out at the crag or gym, don't be a dick about it. It’s just 25% of people die, it’s -40f, and the summit push from camp 3 starts at 3 pm. As reported to me by a group that was there at Shagg Crag at the time, the woman injured was part of a party of 3, and supposedly she was fairly new to climbing outside. 615 votes, 407 comments. Unpacking each accident as a separate event helps to reveal the details and to start a dialogue on safety. The video is super helpful in showing the possible failure mode. how to get exactly to the crag, where to park, where to sleep. com, along with a link to a guide's Instagram with a recreation of what likely happened. Bro why are you talking about gyms and bouldering. Here's some commentary from Climbing. Exact crag GPS location and user's live localization on the map. My climbing partner was leading when they came off. Read the book "Climbing Anchors" by John Long Get a rope backpack because it's going to be a lot more comfortable. Everyone at the crag who was with one of the dogs was belaying or climbing so a random stranger had to intervene. 01) when heading to that crag. The gear ripping had flipped him upside down. With some effort, and Of course, lowering or getting lowered is specific to each crag and your crag may have specific rules but I am talking about "general consensus" to american crags and specifically to The Red. 11a. Don't forget; lack of safety, and therefore accidents, can threaten access. I'm implicitly assuming we're talking about a pack to transport your stuff to and from a crag, and not carry with you on longer climbs in the mountains. At my university gym, one of the wall employees was getting some late night crag action on an autobelay. The Jimmy cliff at celebrity crags has cool routes all around 20, the 23 in the back has a really cool start. 馃幎 I kindly mentioned to a climber and his belayer that they were top roped on the route adjacent to the route being climbed, which would cause a serious swing if/when the climber falls. Best bet is a 40L-ish backpacking backpack that is 1. And are there beginner-friendly routes? Climbing routes are marked by (rough) difficulty. Here are the facts: As America's first climbing gym, Vertical World is highly experienced in risk management tactics in the climbing gym industry and has an outstanding track record for safety. Don't forgot you sign up for a permit (you can donate as little as $. 11c PG is a good example - though this isnt to be taken lightly since it was the scene of a fatal accident a few years back). Stealing snacks/tearing into bags. Photo: Ron Birk There's a decent deal on the mammut crag classic but i'm torn between the 9. It’s “weather” if you count all of mountaineering, slip-and-falls in rock climbing specifically, and you can’t even count rappelling as “while climbing” because it’s not while climbing. VW has always adhered to the Climbing Wall Association (CWA) Industry Practices. 497 votes, 16 comments. Occasional sore if i stretch my back in weird position. At that point we found out he had never climbed outside before, and his friends didn't Imagine if this happened not at an indoor rock wall in a big city, but in a remote crag, exposed to the elements and far from evac. Links to videos or beta description. Hey Guys, In case some of you aren't aware of the original story (Click here for the OP), I lost a friend in a climbing accident about a month ago. Quickdraws were not mine but hanging on a route in a popular crag (Damtjern) close to where I live (Oslo). The real answer is that it depends on what kind of climbing you're doing. What kind of climbing do you prefer? There are lots of great sport climbing crags around Canmore and some are only a 40 minute drive from the North West side of the city. She crashed through branches of a tree and piled into the ground between two boulders Nov 30, 2019 路 ANAC has been keeping track of climbing incidents since 1948, and its data shows that accidents happen to beginner and advanced climbers at roughly the same rate. As far as climbing, if you're new climbers, I'd suggest staying in Muir Valley. 15ft+ is normally R. Hit the the top of the wall at 30 ft. The key is approaching other groups and making friends. When you're walking up to a crag and somehow don't notice your entire 50 meter pulling out of the rope bucket 馃ぁ luckily for my dumb ass none of it fell on the highway Starting to enjoy single pitch trad much more but not enjoying my current hauling situations, a 17L multipitch pack that is stuffed to the brim with things dangling outside or an uncomfortable topo designs 28L that’s much more a fashion bag than built for climbing. 馃幎We're all in this together. 8. I will recommend Crag Daddy by Patagonia Get a 6mm or bigger accessory cord and learn how to tie a quad anchor, purcell-prusik, and auto block. Here’s a bit more info from slc search and rescue’s instagram. Statement from the climbers who removed manufactured holds and controversial routes in Ten Sleep Canyon In this video, Pete Takeda, Editor of Accidents in North American Climbing, gives some tips to avoid causing rockfall while climbing and avoid being hit while at the base of the crag. Bumping into belayers. Free-solo climber dies following 500-foot-fall at Rocky Mountain National Park 283 votes, 57 comments. Crag packs I’m looking for a crag pack. Hi, anyone got experience with travelling on your own to climb and finding partners after arrival? Either at the crag or around in the local area. A couple of pieces of gear ripped and a third held. He was not tied in, and slid off the edge. Its a privately owned chunk of land that is fully open to climbers. Be careful out there! I’ve done loads of comparing and researching and I’ve figured out what I’m looking for in my next rope. Be open with the Crags peeps that you're new, and they'll give you good advice. I'm posting this because it is, like all climbing injuries, an important lesson about risk and safety, but please don't watch it unless you are sure you can handle it. Ragan had 10 years of climbing experience before her accident at Echo Crag, New Hampshire, this past August. Probably not worth going full sovcit over Reply reply monoatomic • It has a lot to do with state law making climbing illegal by default on state land Not that this is even one of the top reasons why Indiana is in the running for worst state, but it demonstrates a certain tendency toward 20 votes, 50 comments. Imagine if this happened not at an indoor rock wall in a big city, but in a remote crag, exposed to the elements and far from evac. I’ve narrowed it down to 2 options and now and I wanted to get some people’s anecdotal opinions before I choose one. In the accident report, Alex states outright that Sonni had been climbing less than a year and that he should have checked up on things better. I’d climbed for 7 years, I felt as though I was past the point of being able to get injured indoors. If I take a noob to the crag, it is my 100% responsibility to check all systems. However, there is one fact that applies to all types of roped climbing. It's on Netflix, you definitely want to check it out. Accident Summary Walsh and Escobar took various standard rappel precautions. Also, proficiency in Valley climbing is proficiency in all crack sizes and slick slab/face climbing. Crags is small but convenient and their quarterly pass is $100 cheaper than monthly passes at Seattle bouldering project. His gear popped and he hit his head resulting in a coma and subsequent memory loss. Accident analysis regarding recent death in Sand Rock/Cherokee Rock Village, AL using pre-cleaned anchor on Mussy Hooks. 80m rope /ropebag Food/3l blatter 2 climbing harnesses/ helmets Sportdraws… Hey everyone, I've been climbing for almost a year now, including mostly indoor bouldering/top-roping and about five outdoor bouldering trips. Roadside Crag has plenty of stuff for rainy days, I'd recommend checking that area out. Jun 7, 2022 路 In October 2003, a double climbing fatality occurred when Dave Kellogg and Kelly Tufo, ages 32 and 41, fell from the top of a multipitch route at Tahquitz Rock in Southern California. I bike everywhere, so I got something that fits everything I need for the day. In this thread you can ask any climbing related question that you may have. 4K votes, 31 comments. As far as sport climbinglook up Civilization Crags on MP, newer routes but very high quality Jan 9, 2023 路 “Climbers We Lost” is an annual tribute to community members we've lost in the past year. After we finished climbing; him filming, somehow we started chatting about the world of climbing and social media. I was climbing at a crag and one of my climbing partners went up a 3-pitch climb with a very experienced local climber. There is a ton of trad climbing at Lumpy Ridge, plus some fun, epic alpine trad in Rocky Mountain National Park. Conga lines at the crag are poor etiquette and so is cutting in line. So headed up to the Peak District at the weekend for some trad and got my own worst and best experiences of crag etiquette… Yeah man it’s totally like jugging up a line at your local crag. Accident reports are a great way to get at different things to learn. It might make you think twice about doing things like a "drop knee", you might lose a bit of flexibility on the bad side, but it wont stop you :) A couple of my thoughts. What was the worst climbing accident you have seen? I saw a girl break her ankle today; she blew the first clip and landed on a rock. Can’t remember which one, without looking in my guidebook. I wonder how to prevent your limbs from getting stuck in a crack climb? Should we bring petroleum jelly or oil to the crag just in case? Jul 10, 2021 路 Lizzy Ragan rappelling to the base of Otter Cliffs at Acadia National Park, Maine. These four guys were at a pretty popular crag yesterday, all high as a kite, with empty beer cans all over the place. She had helped me discover hiking and pushed me to try the climbing gym. Little dog was okay, thankfully. I really don't know how it has increased the difficulty of the route so you should do some research. Let's buy some guidebooks! Rappelling is where the vast bulk of climbing accidents occur, so if you are not 100% comfortable doing it you need to have someone in your party who is. If I'm several miles into the backcountry with the same accident, I might need a heli or SAR team to come and get me. With 8 new climbers, you'll be setting a bunch of top ropes. Beal Booster III Golden dry 9. Reply reply [deleted] • I like being able to have my gear in the zipped open pack when racking up or I can use the pack as a rope tarp when sport climbing. . People seem to like the metolius crag pack, the mammut neon, the bd 50 cal and the arc'teryx miura (much pricier). I was rappelling a famous 4 pitch route on the Great Northern Slab, a very moderate wall by Index standards. As for your question, you answered it yourself. On one hand, we are obsessed with other climbers; first ascents, top-rope tough guys, non-ideal anchor placements, poor belaying stance, spotting, injury prevention and care. Norway based, was thinking about something in the south of Europe Camp at Miguel's. If you're an experienced climber and want to contribute to the community, these threads are a great In my time at gyms I've seen five (!) people get injured (including one death) from failing to clip-in, along with a decent number of close calls. Red Rock local here Buy the Jerry Handren "Red Rocks A Climber's Guide" As far as bouldering, go to the Kraft boulder field and view the Mountain Project classics for the area, fairly accurate. I have seen people lower off the anchors for the same reasons listed above only to come down and get reamed out about the other reasons I listed. Make sure that other people at the crag know they can trade ropes with you if they're toproping We've all read the stories, but I didn't expect to actually witness one. Recently got my hand on some free time in between jobs, but none of my climbing friends have got the time to travel for climbing with me. I did not specifically check their condition before climbing but there was nothing obviously wrong with them. The climber was situated on a There's a climbing club and climbing team, which are respectively casual and competitive. I've seen rocks falling close to me while cragging so many times, including at some crags where I thought this one would absolutely be safe. Climbing in real rock is a whole different feel so go to any crag and get used to the feel of rock. Why not split into groups of 2 and 3 and get more climbing done? Then other people waiting to climb the route won't have to wait for all 5 people to queue up on the one route. Shingo Ohkawa, pro-climber, gear shop worker and possibly the nicest, most willing to teach and most stoked climber ever was recently involved in a climbing accident. But it was quiet with no one else around. 194 votes, 12 comments. Looking at getting a purpose built crag bag likely in the 40-50L range (maybe 30-40 range? unsure) to carry a double rack, draws So we're at least 20 times as likely to die in a car accident than a climbing accident. And yes we are scared of falling. Its cheap camping, good food and packed with experienced Red climbers. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. You don't even permit the possibility of a fall to enter into your mind. Are you cragging at a popular tightly-bolted sport crag or are you scrambling alpine ridges? Vastly different risks. 60 votes, 18 comments. It broke when he asked for take about 50’ up. 4M subscribers in the climbing community. Be safe everyone, and climb on! Reply reply For gyms, usually 60m is ok. They ended up unconscious, upside down, blood dripping out their helmet. I've watched people at crags pull out their phone to look at a youtube videos to remember how to belay or tie a figure eight with no person in their group with any climbing experience. Reply reply One of my local crags had an accident involving a man who fell while climbing on gear with no helmet. I was surprised by how involved and the time it takes to evacuate an injured person from a crag. Anything else usually gets a brief mention in the guidebook (5. This is difficult to pick up where you don't have glacier polished granite. 26 votes, 77 comments. I usually have: work clothes, gym stuff for the morning (shoes, shower stuff, etc), lunch, shoes, harness, chalk bag, and my laptop. Please sort comments by 'new' to find questions that would otherwise be buried. So I was wondering about going by myself. My condolences to the family 20 votes, 22 comments. I think the reason more folks don't cook at the crag is because it's more gear you have to carry - we have enough as it is and cooking reduces valuable climbing time. Yet, on the other hand are so quick to turn a blind eye to something so obviously wrong and stupid. 73 votes, 48 comments. 2K votes, 928 comments. I climb sport and trad but I don’t have trad gear. And its considered the center of Red River Gorge climbing (anytime a local gives you directions to a crag, odds are the route starts at Miguel's). 5mm If you’ve used either of these ropes, what’s your impression of them? Durability, longevity Howdy, I tore my ACL and medial meniscus in a football accident, and had reconstructive surgery for both. For outdoors, depends on your crag and the route length. The best way to the RNWF is in one So I took a nasty ground fall free soloing Salisbury crag in Edinburgh on 5th December, end up hospitalised for a week and a half. Use it to find routes, get beta and keep track of your sends. As a result it's super polished and the grades from routes set in the 70s are now super sandbagged. Plus they'll be really annoying if you want to use the pack for other purposes. Here's a list of guidebooks for 50+ crags in or near SoCal. Not their fault, but I do blame the big dog's owners. A 60 year old man with many years experience has died from a fall at the Rumney climbing area. 7mm Mammut Crag Dry rope 9. When I take it to the crag, I can fit a full rack, 60m rope, harness, shoes, chalk bag, draws, biners, lunch You shouldn't. I got the Patagonia Ascensionist 40L for my daily bag and climbing trips. Is there a compromise to drinking at the crag? It couldn 78 votes, 47 comments. There's usually a big gap in skill from those to 5. Surprisingly did not need a back brace and post op mobility didn't suffer much. Secondly, there's no real standard for being able to fly one and people have crashed them. I think they're unsafe because they limit communication and miscommunication leads to most climbing accidents. This attitude is rather curious amongst the climbing community. Headed to Red Rocks tomorrow! Any helpful tidbits about Red Rocks one should know? I saw this online about an accident at our local crag, Auburn Quarry. g. Get some pear shape 28 votes, 68 comments. 54 votes, 23 comments. I really enjoyed climbing at the Green Belt as well as at Reimers, and it's a shame to hear that something happened to any of the individuals of a great community. This thread will be posted again every Friday so there should always be an opportunity to ask your question and have it answered. 5 through 5. (Conservative estimate including sport, boulder, trad, ice, mountaineering, and assuming that everyone in the US rides in a motor vehicle at some point. Why should climbing mean the same for everyone? If somebody says they like swimming does that imply that swimming the English Channel is something they should want to do? Are people not “real” surfers if they’re scared of big waves or dangerous areas? Climbing very obviously means different things to different people, and just like there is a difference between mountaineering and But ultimately, what I found was soloing isn't really compatible with climbing, because a big part of climbing--and particularly the type of climbing I wanted to do--is falling. Rockfall can always happen, super scary stuff and incredibly unfortunate accident. Sep 24, 2024 路 A climbing accident at Devils Tower's El Cracko Diablo, resulted in the seventh rock climber fatality at the national monument. 8R start of Yellow Wall 5. Perhaps the most accessible crag in the world? Over 300 routes - Kangaroo Point, Brisbane, Australia. The limestone (part of the Niagara Escarpment) is 8/10 competent so it's possible that the climber blew some gear and/or he/she fell awkwardly before getting the first piece of gear in. Nov 2, 2024 路 In reply to redberry: A crag in Borrowdale. At the top of a 70-foot warm-up, she started to lower off. 8 Hey Guys, I am looking for a Crag Pack to throw everything in. No one knows everything about climbing, but there is plenty more to learn for all of us. I think it's valuable to discuss the specifics of climbing accidents. 1. It's a world-class destination, and climbing there will dramatically improve your technique. There are also several A few of my friends are keen to try give Sport's climbing at night a go Any advise, warning , or tips? If you show up with a big group the concern is that you'll dominate the crag. Kenticle/Marymoor Park Anyone familiar with the kenticle or marymoor park areas? Trying to hone some sport climbing skills before heading to the crag Dec 20, 2024 路 While the cause of the accident is unclear, Hansche, who had managed the gym for over two decades, was using the appropriate safety gear and was extremely comfortable with the rope systems involved with indoor route setting. Of the five who actually decked, two of them were extremely experienced climbers who had been climbing for decades and had both bolted and established tons of climbs. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. At the crag, its more likely the approach than on the wall. Get helmets. The unsecured rope end pulled through and Lynn went airborne, windmilling her arms to stay upright. The 2018 edition of Accidents in North American Climbing is stuffed especially full of such accident reports; I've compiled a list of them here, plus some from other years. ) Anyways, I said I would post an update so here it is. Jul 3, 2025 路 In 1989, at a small crag in France, the Styx Wall at Buoux, Lynn Hill forgot to finish tying her knot connecting the climbing rope to her harness. Since I discovered that I like climbing LONG endurance routes, I will be getting a longer rope. The home of Climbing on reddit. He was quite self aware of his presence at the crag , a rarity in my experience of the modern climber, and asked if WE were okay with him filming in the background. Belayers, even if you're awesome and have been belaying for decades, use my idiocy as motivation to be extra safe!! The RNWF of Half Dome had a large chunk of it fall off which changed the route. This is based on WA's traffic and accident data; and I'm a pretty typical central cascades sport climber with gear plugging friends. In safe types of climbing, these moments are entirely related to If soloing truly is becoming more commonplace in the sport, at what point does it affect potential access to crags for the general climbing community after accidents related to soloing uptick? 1. While sport climbing in the Northwest, I witnessed a climber pull a 250 pound block off a popular sport route that had been climbed for more than 25 years and never fallen off. , trusted the auto belay and decked. He expressed a lot of toxic aspects to the work. It was a completely avoidable accident (the climber was on the top of a frozen waterfall, setting up an anchor, and slipped. My climbing buddies and I want to start climbing outdoor sport routes as soon as possible, but none of us know where to begin! Is it common to take an outdoor course to learn the basics? Rattlesnake Point is one of 3 decent outdoor crags less than an hour from Toronto. Hansche grew up in southern New Hampshire and started climbing with his father at a young age. "belay on!" "climbing?" "climb on!"). Where it got scary was the last guy lead up the thing, and gets to the anchor. There are certain moments where mistakes will most likely be fatal. Many climbers were the first to respond with search and rescue coming later. So I climbed a route with my other partner, came back down, and was setting up to belay him, when I hear frantic "ROCK! Please be safe everyone. I'm sure other people would benefit from this too. For a route to be considered "R" at the Gunks it typically requires for the runout to be at the grade of the route. He reportedly forgot his harness and made one himself from kayak straps and a leather belt. 10-15ft is normally PG13. I am looking to carry my rope in the bag, as well as sport gear, lunch, water, and a jacket/rain gear. Climbing at Anchorage's local crag last summer: Seward Hwy, Red Gate, "Accident Victim" 5. Try routes marked 5. And you don't fall when you solo. 10. What is the worst climbing etiquette violations that has happened to you? I'd like to know so that I can avoid doing these. Climbing is inherently dangerous, and things like safety checks and buddy checks do their best to minimize risk, however risk can never be completely eliminated from climbing. I need a rope for outdoor climbing on mostly lime stone, slab routes and 'stairs'. Screws and rod placed in fibula, ankle, and l3 vertebrae. There really isn't any reason for a group of 4-5 to be all climbing together at the same time anyway. I could fall from the top of the wall and be okay. For an in-depth and beautiful guidebook, purchase the Southern Nevada Bouldering guide by Tom Moulin. I rappelled down and swung over to see climber with 5 cams in a parallel crack, all within 3 feet of each other. I heard yelling down and to the left of me as I was rappelling. When will you be in Calgary? There are some south facing crags that are climbable right now but some higher elevation climbs won't be in until June. They took turns on a particular 5. The Eiger Sanction (1975) - Clint Eastwood legit old school climbing movie that has the feel of a 007 film. " [The] culprit in this story? The bowline knot itself. 585 votes, 156 comments. I’ve always thought the gym was safe. 5 and the 9. I’ve climbed it a few times myself. Here is a story from a couple months back, at my favorite trad crag, Index WA. Another time, a pebble crashed right to my side, I heard the tearing sound and felt After seeing two fairly nasty accidents up close in the last year I'm curious how many accidents people have seen, how long they've been climbing for and what styles of climbing they engage in? So far over the last 3 years as someone who climbs a mix of trad, bouldering and sport with a little bit of alpining etc thrown in I've seen the following: All those crag-friendly features are gimmicky BS that will quickly annoy you after their novelty wears off. Link to help him out in the comments. The problem with free soloing is that if you do die, best case scenario you're creating a horrific mess somebody else has to clean up; worst case scenario you're damaging the global climbing community with a high-profile accident that will make people think climbing is more dangerous and irresponsible than it is, inspire private landowners to Oct 10, 2022 路 In dry conditions most teams top out the crag and go down the standard Friction Descent, a route with third-class scrambling on slabs that would lose its appeal when wet. As someone who loves climbing and wants to improve and compete, I've opted to get a membership at Momentum Climbing, which is fairly close to the UW campus. Yesterday, while out on a trip, I was given the very unfortunate news that one of my climbing buddies (and close friend) was in a grave accident. Skip sweet dreams, do whymper and or saccharine nightmare. Once you venture out of the city itself there's Booromba rocks, which is a huge trad climbing destination and lots of people rank it just behind Araps as one of Australia's best trad An interesting take on climbing legend John Long's climbing accident in an LA climbing gym. Crag description with user change suggestions or comments e. " If you’ve been indoor bouldering for a few months there is a possibility you won’t be able to send anything besides V easy and maybe v0 outside so don’t worry too much about finding the best crag. It doesn’t have to be climbing specific but I do want something ergonomic, preferably with an internal frame and a hip belt. It was on a very established and popular route called Goodro’s wall. 28 votes, 60 comments. ) One big crag dog attacking a well-behaved, leashed little crag dog. My question is: Have you personally lost a friend or loved one climbing? If so, how long had you been climbing at that point? In my second year of climbing my best friend died in a top roping accident. There's at least quadruple the number of boulders and theres much more training equipment for climbing. One dude almost died that day, I watched him run for his life while on my route as a huge boulder was falling on him. Its heavily If this is literally the only crag in the state it’s statistically also a total chosspile. 146 votes, 51 comments. This will eliminate the need for nylon slings, prusik cord, and a PAS. Get a guidebook for your local crag and use MP as a supplement if you like technology, and when you are visiting new area on trips and continuing to purchase new guidebooks gets expensive, MP will have more than enough info to let you climb the crag's classics. The Austin climbing group was tremendously welcoming to me for my first time climbing outdoors when I was visiting family in the area. Guys, I learned a hard lesson today about paying attention while belaying from a gri-gri (climber completely unharmed). I’ve spoken to the belayer and he still suffers anxiety from the accident. I have found good info on most crags I have searched for, and if anything is missing/wrong it is very easy to edit the information and submit my own corrections. If my belayer drops me at a sport crag and I break my leg, it might be pretty easy to carry me to a car to drive me to the hospital. 8 to get a feel for it. ywub yaw vgdiiv xxcacl jnq jpvef yhx kuf rno fgsj