Is indoor rock climbing dangerous reddit. Despite the reassurance of a rope, the inherent risks of climbing to greater heights meant there was potential for greater consequences. Hub Climbing Mississauga is a world class indoor rock climbing gym for recreation, birthday parties, training and team building activities. I found that, because my strength was lacking at first, I worked more on technique. It takes a lot of general business knowledge to run a climbing gym. In most climbing gyms, the bolts are spaced close together, the Depends on the gym, and how comfortable you are outside. Here's your guide to indoor rock climbing. I didn’t go on my own for a few months and kept going with them until I eventually realized that I liked bouldering enough to try it out solo when all my climbing friends were busy. In addition to this group, an increasing number of individuals nowadays frequent indoor climbing gyms, as it is truly a sport suitable for all ages, even recommended for the youngest climbers. com Rock climbing, with its breathtaking ascents and jaw-dropping vistas, is a pursuit that beckons adventure enthusiasts from around the world. Also surprisingly durable for a high performance shoe, lasted 8 months before I resoled them could have probably pushed it another month or 2. Indoor bouldering is pretty safe, but it can go pretty bad if you are unlucky. I did the same grades but it was just so exhausting. From the youngest to the not-so-young Mountaineering is dangerous, mountains are unforgiving. I was so bummed. However, just as any sport climbing venue requires you to show a basic degree of competency, maybe bouldering walls need to adopt similar measures, and respond more appropriately when people behave in dangerous ways. I'm going indoor rock climbing with a friend today and I'm always unsure about what kind of clothes to wear. Do what works for you, and enjoy the focus you can have. Apr 25, 2024 · Rock climbing can seem pretty intimidating — it has a reputation for being dangerous and extreme. If anyone reading this climbs as well, how are you tracking the routes? Climbing is dangerous for normal weight people. Oct 16, 2019 · Rock climbing outdoors for your first time can be intimidating and dangerous. If you begin to rock climb even a few times a week, you’ll receive a full body workout every single time. This article examines the multifaceted nature of safety in indoor climbing. I've climbed at Blackburn a few times. 619 votes, 549 comments. Except for with rock climbing! We are going tonight. It's potentially ~100x worse than for normal population and ~10x worse for industrial and roadside workers in hazardous areas. The tough part for most of us is we have way more access to indoor climbing. Careful, I built a very similar triangular climbing platform for my kids during the pandemic, and they almost immediately engaged in scope creep, and now I have a full size playground structure in my backyard. There are manmade psicobloc walls which are basically climbing walls above swimming pools, some of which are also known to have yearly tournaments. Well done! Reply reply Hokus • we did it reddit Reply reply More repliesMore replies Supersquigi •• Edited The rock has probably been there for at least few hundred thousand years though I see that I have made a dangerous mistake Reply reply [deleted] • Jun 18, 2021 · Rock climbing has risks, but it’s not as dangerous as other extreme sports. If it's from heel hooking, start your climbing routine with some "soft heel hooks" in your warm-up and stretch. However, like any sport, it carries its own set of risks, and understanding the causes of fatalities in rock climbing is crucial for climbers to navigate these challenges safely. Safe dismount on indoor mats can reduce the impact by landing on your feet > tucking in limbs > sit and roll onto back. In this article I’m going to tell you the facts and statistics regarding the safety of rock climbing, including indoor and outdoor rock climbing, and using ropes, harnesses and other equipment versus bouldering and free solo climbing. And when you read the route, include the clips with it, including body position for the most effective clipping position. A climbing gym can act like a 2nd home no matter where the gym is. Is 112 subscribers in the IndiaToUSTravel community. Stay vigillent about safety and be safe out (or in) there. Most injuries indoors are from people falling on other people, so, give other climbers some space. I recently moved cities and while there's a great climbing gym near by, I don't know anyone in this city and its super intimidating going alone. Do more of it and it will come. I got into rock climbing years ago and loved everything about it! One advice I have for you is to pick up a few yoga classes on your recovery days. Indoor and outdoor climbing are almost totally different skills. That said there are some people who won't climb certain things, e. It aims to explore the key factors that contribute to accidents, from equipment failures and human error to environmental hazards and inadequate training. I landed on my back in between two mats, and managed to fracture my T12 vertebrae. Check out some tips and gear for getting started indoor rock climbing. Of course because of Covid, I was going off and on but I loved the gym I was at and I was often with friends. 8's and 5. We visited the oldest and newest climbing gyms to see how - and why - indoor climbing is changing [mini documentary] I’d love to hear any thoughts. Why should climbing mean the same for everyone? If somebody says they like swimming does that imply that swimming the English Channel is something they should want to do? Are people not “real” surfers if they’re scared of big waves or dangerous areas? Climbing very obviously means different things to different people, and just like there is a difference between mountaineering and 13 votes, 10 comments. HR has city and Nunawading - no bouldering. When a climb drained too much strengths or the route has some overhang and reaching some foothold again feels uncomfy then I prefer a controlled drop rather than climbing down. You can have a mini fridge with drinks and a fun bowl or bucket as a communal chalk bucket, you I always wanted to get into climbing but i didn’t have the basic equipment, and was a bit lazy to get started. How dangerous would you say via ferrata is compared to traditional rock-climbing? I feel like the safety of via ferrata equipment is questionable (considering how much the cord extends upon a user's fall) Oct 16, 2021 · What are the main hazards of rock climbing, and exactly how dangerous is rock climbing when compared to other sports? Aug 8, 2024 · While mortal injury is highly unlikely, sport climbing is still quite dangerous—but not how you'd typically think. Limestone and volcanic rock have similarities, but also feel very different on my hands, and can have more cryptic feet. I am at 170, 5 foot 7, 28 y/o. Go to one of those facilities for indoor rock climbing, it helped me and now im not too worried being up high. Since then I’ve definitely noticed some differences in a few areas when bouldering solo compared 73 votes, 67 comments. Trusting someone else’s anchor or gear placement can lead to accidents; it’s safer to climb off your own systems. But, I have been lead trad climbing for literally 50 years this month. Regularly check climbing gear for wear and tear, especially fabric items, to prevent accidents. I took a really bad fall today in the bouldering cave at my local gym (around 9 feet). There are certain holds at my gym that have flat surfaces and are typically angled. May 12, 2025 · It’s essential to recognize that indoor climbing, while generally safer than its outdoor counterpart, is not risk-free. Reply reply More replies Jaypav1 • I think climbing down is not safer everytime. A great place to start would be to build a home wall and invite people to come climb at your home gym. If you're serious about getting better, you'll want to go a few times a week, and it's near impossible managing to find people to go that often and to fit your schedule. Indoor Rock Climbing - first timer I am currently on week 2 of my weight loss journey, 2018. I find that outdoor climbing makes you use your feet a lot better indoors however. Imagine if a 5 foot drop was as risky as a 10 foot drop, and a 10 foot drop was as risky as a 20 foot drop. I finally borrowed some basic stuff and gave it a try and I LOVED it. Fast clipping makes lead climbing so much Why are many rock climbers so up-their-own-ass about the fact that they climb rocks? Mar 4, 2022 · Bouldering outdoors is an easy way to do some solo rock climbing outside; however, it’s naturally more dangerous than an indoor gym. Jul 22, 2022 · Going to an indoor climbing or bouldering gym for the first time? You might wonder what you need to wear to get the most out of your experience. The clothes I pick are often uncomfortable with the harness on. Every time. A one day pass was $25, supplies rental was $10, safety class was $25. Hey I’m a new climber and I was wondering if people had some wisdom to share and what you wish you knew when you started rock climbing. You can introduce new people to climbing and start building community. Indoor Bouldering Pros of Indoor Bouldering Indoor bouldering provides a controlled environment where climbers can practice their skills without having to worry about weather conditions. The following analysis, and pie chart, exclude alpine and mountaineering incidents, which represent a separate climbing discipline with added dangers, and which deserve further study. Let’s delve into the sobering aspects of this To me, sandstone feels the most similar to climbing indoors. The training involved to get you to hike a 12 mile approach before doing 4 pitches is bound to either indirectly cause you to lose weight, or at least make you a complete badass. Sports, whether recreational or professional, can be very dangerous or generally safe depending on what you’re doing and how careful you are. Less dangerous version of silks would be sling/hammock. I have not broken any bones or ever needed stitches due to a climbing injury. From advice on which gym to visit to videos of world cup IFSC climbers, you can find it all here. I understand that rope climbing can be dangerous and that it's important to be smart about the exercise before you actually give it a go. If you are serious about high altitude mountain climbing, you have to accept that you're playing Russian roulette. Always read the route before you get on it. Now, a few years later, a full 3 hour session on my hardest projects results Sep 23, 2015 · Rock climbing can be fun and a new way to get in a workout and scale new heights. Since this activity is highly intensive and leads to the secretion of oils… Dec 30, 2023 · This beginner's guide provides a comprehensive overview of starting indoor rock climbing. I'm looking for some new climbing pants. The use of auto belays moves climbing more toward the perception of climbing being an amusement, especially to new participants and outsiders. Let’s explore the dangers of rock and lead climbing, top roping, and bouldering. When I started climbing, I was 6'2, 240#. 4M subscribers in the climbing community. com Rock Climbing is inherently dangerous, but many of the risks are mitigated in indoor climbing. But that was probably more painful to watch that to attempt. I had no expectations but I was a bit surprised by how expensive it got. Indoor climbers usually suffer outdoors due to technique and stylistic differences and outdoor climbers usually don't have the raw power and gymnastic strength of indoor climbers. This perception dulls awareness of the risks, leading to complacency. Indoor gym climbing walls generally range from 40-60 feet, about the height of a 3-4 story building. After a while of that, we all got into climbing as a family. Climbing is dangerous and we cannot ever guarantee safety. Climbing on granite is very very different style then indoors. Anything related to indoor (and outdoor) goes. Hardest boulder sent outside was V3. Indoor Climbing Price and Facilities Climbing Requires a Different Kind of Forearm and Finger Strength Bouldering in Tight Climbing Shoes Rock Climbing Etiquette “Find Your Feet” – Make Sure You Use the Climbing Foot Holds Climb Down the Holds, Don’t Jump Try All Types of Climbs Compete Against a Friend on a Similar Level Avoid Busy Dec 17, 2023 · Image by: climbingport. Rent shoes, chalk bag, harness (if rope climbing). I may also post this in some kind of small business subreddit for some business advice. As my baby is breastfed, I bring her to our indoor climbing facility with me. In this article I’m going to tell you the facts and statistics regarding the safety of rock climbing, including indoor and outdoor Good job. Sep 25, 2019 · Indoor Rock Climbing 101: Everything You Need to Know Before Your First Visit to the Climbing Gym How to rock your first climbing lesson. I played rugby for a year and a half ending last summer, but am just now getting back into shape. If you add in the extra kinetic energy of more mass, and especially if the person isn't naturally athletic and/or has some aerial awareness problems, it's quite dangerous. I wanted to come to all of you to generally gather the thoughts of a passionate climbing community that traverses rock using many techniques and from diverse backgrounds. With the arrival of the cold season, indoor climbing inevitably sees the return of many regular climbers who, due to winter weather, cannot enjoy real rock climbing. Also will help you be more mindful of When I started bouldering I went with a few of my friends. Place to discuss travel to US from India during the partial ban. A climbing gym, like any other business, is a business. Well since I was new, the one day pass was really only good for about an hour as I was burnt out by the end. When climbing in a gym, help is never far away, you don’t have to worry about the weather, and the wall probably won’t fall down on top of you. At which grade did you start to plateau? When did you start seriously training? A much better idea is to use indoor climbing to bridge in to outdoor cragging or multi-pitch climbing. A good friend actually managed to get a vertebral fracture while indoor bouldering yesterday and I know of one of the workers at my gym that managed to do the same (while climbing in another gym). Indoor Rock Climbing Games to Play for Kids There are many bouldering games you can play with your kids to warm them up and help their overall climbing technique while keeping things fun. As with most types of climbing, there are hazards with deep water soloing that are completely different to most other types of climbing, for example drowning. Most teachers don't have you going up to high for that. Aug 17, 2015 · As you make the climbing less adventurous (below altitude, sport climbing, indoor, etc) it becomes safer, but rock climbing is a dangerous sport. If you don't have good footwork, you could really end up hurting yourself with a nasty ropeburn if you fall wrong. The home of Climbing on reddit. None of the mountaineering courses require climbing experience, and they do not teach rock climbing. Been pushing back into the V8 range after taking a year off of climbing during covid, which generally seems to be my plateau. Most things in climbing systems are redundant so if an aspect of the gear system breaks you are still safe from falling. With hundreds of falls, my injuries have been repetitive use injuries, sprains, scratches, bumps and bruises. Where is the nearest place that's worth climbing at? Not a fan at all of action, and the college is extremely pricey for non… Jun 23, 2024 · In this article, we will explore the pros and cons of indoor and outdoor bouldering to help you make an informed decision before hitting the rocks. This is true for rock climbing as well, whether indoor or outdoor. Attn Parents: Chalk Dust & Babies/ Kids? Hello climbing parents, Background: I returned to gentle climbing at 3 weeks postpartum, and I am now 10 weeks postpartum. I know that everyone thinks it's super dangerous driving a car, but the reality is there are very few deaths per driver when compared to many of the other activities we do. Full-Body Workout One of the first health benefits of rock climbing is the full-body workout that it offers. You can have a mini fridge with drinks and a fun bowl or bucket as a communal chalk bucket, you Less dangerous version of silks would be sling/hammock. As for indoor metrics, project V5ish in my gym and V4 on the tension board. Looking for some advice on gaining self confidence as a new climber. ) On the other hand, if you are very comfortable outside you might find indoor climbing much harder (due to lack of friction for shoe scumming, for example) But at the end of the day I would The key to climbing and not ruining your skin is to climb with MUCH more control and finesse. climb a couple storeys high with rope and harness. It's already been said in here, but the key is a light touch, avoiding over gripping, and being "light" on your hands. But call me a nihilist, so is life in general (maybe except for the ‘natural’ part). Worst I've seen second hand was one of two seconders behind me on a remote 3 pitch trad limestone route. Some of them teach pitched climbing on snow and ice, short pitching and roping on rock, and general rock and rope skills, but nowhere does it seem like climbing is necessary. Oct 29, 2018 · Rock climbing is becoming more popular, and with this, is an increasing interest in trends and patterns of climbing injuries and accidents. You will get a little intro lesson on how to tie in to the rope and how to belay. a place to celebrate the art of hold shaping, route setting, yogapants, sending, comp's and everything indoor climbing. My cardio was decent from doing indoor soccer once a week on a team where available substitutes were rare (50 minutes of nothing but wind sprints will get anyone into shape), but my upper body strength was pretty pathetic. So I spent $60 on one hour of fun. Gym routes tend not to have foot options and holds tend to hit the same part of the fingers every time. Maybe try a circus sampler. Rock climbing is an inherently dangerous sport. Plus setters often like to overly stress the joints in non-ergonomic positions. Canberra Indoor Rock Climbing is not a good indoor climbing facility, relative to ones in other cities. I go to Nov 3, 2022 · The noise levels in our house are rock concert–level, and the only time my kids don’t run up and down the stairs, vibrating the frame of our home and sending the cats skittering under the furniture, is when they’re sick (and poised to transmit whatever virus they picked up to Mom and Dad). Rock Climbing Technique: The Practical Guide to Movement Mastery by John Kettle - A book of exercises to improve climbing movement. I love my rock climbing gym but it is in a different city and I think a lot of people would be interested in one in my area. Next I’ll buy my own equipments and keep on climbing. I started when climbing was a lot more dangerous. As you make the climbing less adventurous (below altitude, sport climbing, indoor, etc) it becomes safer, but rock climbing is a dangerous sport. The solution is still my favorite sport climbing shoe that I have tried, precise and makes me feel confident on even the smallest feet. . Mar 4, 2022 · Bouldering outdoors is an easy way to do some solo rock climbing outside; however, it’s naturally more dangerous than an indoor gym. The more you learn about the physics and the mechanics of rope climbing you come to learn the danger involved with rope climbing stems from human complacency and not gear failure. But yes, there is a risk. Im curious what everyone’s climbing progression/timeline has been like? How quickly did you progress from V1 to V2, and then V2 to V3 etc (not limited to bouldering grades). Jun 18, 2021 · Rock climbing has risks, but it’s not as dangerous as other extreme sports. Class 1 is easy trails, class 2 is difficult trail or no trail, class 3 is scrambling, class 4 is very steep scrambling/easy climbing, class 5 is full rock climbing. She is stuck in the indoor 11+/v4 range because of it. However, the sport is becoming increasingly popular and it’s not just for the risk-takers among us. I'm looking for a little bit of advice on how to go about this kind of endeavor. It’s “weather” if you count all of mountaineering, slip-and-falls in rock climbing specifically, and you can’t even count rappelling as “while climbing” because it’s not while climbing. I started climbing I was just like you, climbed inside up to a V5 level and struggled to get my first V2 my first go outside. Spent one season climbing sport outside where my hardest onsight was 10a, redpoint 11b (in ten sleep, so maybe take that with a grain of salt lol). Only thing being, I don't know anyone in Victoria so don't have anyone to climb with. Physician researchers from a German university decided to investigate common causes of climbing accidents and injuries in an indoor climbing gym setting. I still went climbing 1 or 2 a week but I could only do 1 or 2 routes then my energy would be gone for the day. We’ve had a big response on YouTube comments and really enjoyed hearing different perspectives. I dont know if its possible or feasible, but it would be interesting to climb on material that is more rock like but still man made. Been climbing for about 8 years now, primarily indoor bouldering with some occasional trad/sport and bouldering outdoors. In this article, we’ll cover everything you need to know about appropriate clothes for a climbing (or bouldering) gym as well as other gear you need for your climbing session. See full list on ascentionism. A subreddit for the indoor bouldering community. And yes we are scared of falling. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. The study calculated that exposure to some dangerous chemicals from climbing gyms for both employees and regular climbers far exceeds all other exposure sources. Urban Climb or Hard Rock? (Or other) UC has Collingwood (boulder only) and Blackburn (amazing facility with top rope, lead, autobelay, speed wall, a cafe and bouldering). I've been climbing for over 3 years now. Dedicated to increasing all our knowledge about how to better improve at our sport. 9's at the gym. When I first started, my hands would be completely destroyed after a night on 5. Basically, I am not where I want to be but not starting from ground zero. Full-body workouts are often hard to come by, even in regular gyms. Kid goes to college and is feeling homesick, they can go to the climbing gym where there’s familiarity, likeminded people (even if they’re strangers), and a knowledgeable way for them to keep up with their health and fitness. When you Hi all, I am a university student that is writing a research piece on the rise of indoor climbing gyms and their effects on climbing’s status as a subculture. Accompanied by Youtube videos to support the exercises. Bouldering is the perfect sport to do alone. They analyzed over 500 thousand visits to a major city climbing gym during a 5 year period (2007-2011 5 Biomechanical Tips to Improve Your Climbing Technique by u/stoneyviolist - A sports medicine take on climbing form. Although an argument can be made that indoor climbing or even outdoor sport climbing is relatively safe, climbing is dangerous, pointless, and unnatural. 1. Sign waver ("I understand that climbing is potentinally dangerous"). It’s not something to take lightly. The class rating is somewhat subjective and the boundaries between classes can be a bit fuzzy, but this is a general overview. Would going to an indoor rock climbing gym be a bad first date? Or is it more of a 2nd or later type date? Archived post. g people who won't climb slab because they think it's dangerous even though they'll climb other things. If you aren’t careful, things may not end well. As long as you progress deliberately, indoor climbing can provide a lifetime of rewarding experiences and unmatched views! Insane first time gym climber free solos to top of roped wall and brags on Insta about getting yelled at by staff for almost dying We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Feb 14, 2022 · In an examination of all roped rock-climbing accidents, trad climbers reported about three times the number of accidents as sport and toprope combined. It was one of the seconders first trad . In general I find outdoor grades to be more consistent within an area and then within a region than gym grades (even on problems within the same gym. even indoors. So I started climbing on my own, indoor and outdoor. Everyone else has suggested other aerial arts that are closer to the ground. I had never done rock climbing until last month a new indoor rock climbing place opened up nearby. Why not just rate the indoor climbs lower or the outdoor climbs higher? I haven't done a lot of outdoor climbing, so if anyone could explain that would be cool. The problem with free soloing is that if you do die, best case scenario you're creating a horrific mess somebody else has to clean up; worst case scenario you're damaging the global climbing community with a high-profile accident that will make people think climbing is more dangerous and irresponsible than it is, inspire private landowners to Indoor bouldering is usually about as safe as climbing could be. Someone else cited it in this thread somewhere. From the start, you can top-rope, i. Literally this. The city one is alright, quite a few top rope routes there. Chances are high that you’ve tried indoor climbing, maybe once or maybe three times a week all winter. Apr 22, 2022 · If you’re interested in trying climbing for the first time, the gym is great place to start. Finally, there are some business realities we must face. General insight: footwork is everything with lead climbing. Reply reply thehungriestnarwhal • As the title says. 11 votes, 11 comments. Apparently it gets really hot and muggy in summer which is a huge turn off. My climbing gym offers them for free with our membership and I felt like it tremendously helped me improve. Actually seen would be my 50 year old lead climber pulling a muscle in his calf on a sport climb, and then spending 20 minutes trying to figure out how to complete the onsite while injured. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. That's natural. How dangerous would you say via ferrata is compared to traditional rock-climbing? 120 votes, 48 comments. e. Feb 11, 2021 · Rock climbing is inherently dangerous, but can be relatively safe if precautions are taken. I went to the Mitchell one (owned by the same company as the Hume one) once when I just moved down to Canberra, and found that they didn't have that many walls to climb, they don't change the walls/routes very often, and the difficulty setting for the routes was pretty bad (one difficulty Also, for climbers who started with indoor climbing and then started climbing outdoors more, did you notice any significant differences in how you climb / technique / strengths? Overall I'm super excited to experience some real rock, and have really enjoyed reading all of the posts from this sub in the past month or so. It's not very dangerous unless you are extremely unaware of your surroundings. I would appreciate any tips or suggestions for a newbie. But, the drive to your aerials is probably riskier, to be honest. Being so new, I'm still a Not sure if it was mistyped, but nothing in climbing is "safe," as a climbing gym employee we literally are told not to tell people something is safe because there is ALWAYS a risk for injury. Some people think rope climbing is more dangerous, others won't boulder. Perhaps the notion that roped climbing was safer than bouldering was a naive one, however. You’re likely to go to a more remote location and, as such, be exposed to the elements. Chalk is one of the most crucial elements for successful rock climbing. Anxious at the top? Good. I wanted to ask some questions about rope climbing before I actually go ahead and make the purchase, just so I know what I'm getting into and whether I'm ready or not. But overall you are right! Oct 19, 2023 · Discover the dangers associated with rock climbing and learn how to mitigate the risks to ensure a safe and enjoyable experience. Something I've thought about is indoor (or potentially even outdoor) climbing walls made out of rock like synthetic material. Discuss visas, NIE, third… Dec 14, 2023 · 17 Amazing Benefits of An Indoor Climbing Gym Here are the 17 benefits of an indoor climbing gym. Better to bring a friend for this. Do you know of any local spots for outdoor or indoor rock climbing, bouldering, etc? Any leads are appreciated, thank you. Reddit's rock climbing training community. Yoga really complements rock climbing in that it’ll help you build core strength and flexibility. Outdoor climbing is a different beast where for each type of climb you may have a different shoe, but what about for those long days in the gym? What shoe do you use/recommend that manages to perform on boulder problems and walls alike yet doesn't get uncomfortable for those longer days of nonstop climbing? Solo indoor rock climbing anywhere? Hi people, just wondering if there's anywhere that had indoor rock climbing for solo climbers? I'm not at all good at it, but I did enjoy it years ago and would love to give it another go. No matter how many times you’ve climbed indoors, just know that your first time outdoors will present a number of challenges you didn’t expect. Are specific types of shorts or shirts that I can get or wear that would be better for climbing? I'm mainly jogging/running and as a secondary sport twice/thrice a week I go climbing in an indoor boulder gym, what I'm asking is an opinion regarding it's resistance to bumps and scratches, possible covers that you guys suggest to keep it safe. I started climbing a year ago and LOVED it. May 3, 2024 · The study calculated that exposure to some dangerous chemicals from climbing gyms for both employees and regular climbers far exceeds all other exposure sources. Specifically mens pants but if the women want to chime in with their favorite pair go ahead! I mostly use the bear bottom joggers but I'm sure there is something more comfortable out there. As a beginner, you probably won't be getting on problems where you'll be in dangerous body positions or movement that might cause you to fall in some way other than on your feet; most of what you'll climb will be pretty straightforward. Indoor climbing sucks for her. qbjcy bvgq puuqg ubdlys yvoh vzcftodp gkntbjj qsrg fbw lpkv